FABRIZI: Yes. And I think probably a missing link here is being able to, even, let's say, what a basic high school education, being able to put the dots together, like how geography and politics correspond.

MANZARI: Mmm hmm.

FABRIZI: You know, those are things— and that— basically, it's just teaching people how to think. You know, it's interesting because you know I come out of the building trades, and as you were told before we came on, I'm a union guy.

MANZARI: Yep.

FABRIZI: And, you know I teach actually, over at the vocational school, the unions.

MANZARI: Oh, very good.

FABRIZI: And, you know, people— we have young people there that go out and buy a multitude of tools, like, they have every tool known to man. But, yet they don't know yet when to use them. So it's kinda useless. It's sort of like getting an education, and even some of these college people that I see today. And I think to myself, I say, "Wow. With my limited education, the exposure that I have, you know, I thirsted for more." So I read, and what have you.

MANZARI: Right.

FABRIZI: And I see these people and they kind of stop there. And they're not taught, they're not taught how to think. They have this— and even if they have the tools available, they really do not know how to use them.

MANZARI: Right.

FABRIZI: So that's— that's the way that I look at it. I look at it in a very practical way. You know, if you have— you can have all these tools, but if you don't know how and when to use them, it's ineffective.

MANZARI: Yeah. Yeah. You really have to be taught the basics. You have to be taught the principles. And then you have to really learn critical thinking skills, and research skills, and decision-making skills, and all of those kinds of things that they're not teaching in school. It's really up to parents to do, which is fine. I believe in the parents raising your own kids, not letting the schools raise your kids for you, or somebody else raise your kids for you. But there's just a certain amount of — you mentioned civics. Those kind of things aren't being taught. I mean, kids aren't being taught cursive. They're not being taught typing. Well, what are you supposed to do? Is it all going to be just dictating into things? I mean, can you read the Constitution anymore? That's written in cursive. I mean, there's just some— I guess I'm sounding pretty old school, but— and then the other thing is, there's really a push for every kid to go to college. Not every kid should be going to college. You know, everybody has their own God-given gift, and you, you do what you're good at, and what you're interested in. And, you know, some kids should learn the trades. Some kids shouldn't go to college. Some kids, maybe they're cut out to be a lawyer or a doctor.

FABRIZI: Very true.

MANZARI: Other kids aren't, so ...

FABRIZI: Before we go on,

MANZARI: Yep.

FABRIZI: We're really taking off on this thing ...

MANZARI: OK.

FABRIZI: your, if you like to share some information about your family, and that kind of thing,

MANZARI: Sure.

FABRIZI: you did mention family, and children, and so forth.

MANZARI: Yep. So, I grew up in Pennsylvania, in central Pennsylvania, outside of Harrisburg, and I went to a small state school in Pennsylvania, Shippensburg, and I was a teacher for a number of years, and then — yep — and then I worked, actually in the cell phone business back when that was just a brand new technology that was coming on the scene, and I literally had a guy ask me, "So how do these things work, is it like a really long long extension cord?" So that that tells you a little bit about how far, you know, how long ago that was. And then after that I went back to school and I got my MBA from Cornell University, and ended up working in Manhattan for several years, and I worked for — I did an internship with Procter and Gamble. I worked for Pfizer and their consumer side. And then I worked for Johnson & Johnson. That's what brought me to New Jersey. And I worked in brand management, new business development, and strategic marketing.

FABRIZI: Wow.

MANZARI: Yeah. And so, I really enjoyed it.

FABRIZI: And you have a family, you said.

MANZARI: I do. So, I've been married to my husband for, oh my goodness, let's see, 21 years. And I have two kids. My son is a junior in high school, and my daughter is a sophomore in college.

FABRIZI: OK. Very good, very good. And can I ask you what what caused you to enter the political arena?

MANZARI: Sure. So, I mean when my kids were little I was involved a lot in their schools, and I really wasn't very politically motivated or interested. I didn't know a lot about politics. And just through a neighborhood chat, I found out about a large development with a lot of housing that was coming up and being considered in West Windsor. And I started asking around. I was getting a lot of conflicting information about it, and so I went to the source. I went to the township and found out that they had done— they had a consultant to a research study of that. And I printed that out. It was a couple hundred pages, and I read through that. And I went to a meeting where some Council candidates were having a Q&A, and a little bit of a discussion and listened, and waited. When it was my turn, I held it up and I said, "Have any of you guys even read this? Because it doesn't sound like you have. There are a lot of important facts here that the Township paid a consultant to find out this information, and nobody's even paying any attention to it, and this is gigantic, and you really need to look at these facts." And one of the candidates was Charlie Morgan, who you probably know. And he said, "You know, I couldn't agree with you more. And if I'm elected, I'm going to put together this committee, and I would like you to be on it." And sure enough, he and his whole slate won, and about a week after the election, Will Ankowitz called me, and he had run with Charlie, and he said, "We're doing this, and we'd like you to be a part of it."

FABRIZI: Wow.

MANZARI: And so that was really the beginning. And I've served on the Zoning Board, and the Site Plan Review Advisory Board, and that first committee was the Documents Review Committee, so we would look at potential resolutions and ordinances, and figure out: did they really, did we think that they were really going to accomplish what we wanted them to accomplish? Or were there going to be unintended consequences, because of the way we were phrasing things, or wording things, and did the data really back up what we were trying to do? So, that's how I got involved.

FABRIZI: Wow.

MANZARI: And it's been great. I've been going on and off to Council meetings over the years, and finally decided to run a couple years ago.

FABRIZI: So, your thoughts about women in government?

MANZARI: OK.

FABRIZI: You're a Republican.

MANZARI: Yep.

FABRIZI: And, I'd just like to get your opinion on the #MeToo movement.

MANZARI: Oh gosh. OK. Um, so, you know, in my experience, I've— I've not had any experiences where, um, you know, anybody has done anything illegal with me. Now, has anybody ever said anything off-color, or made a dirty joke, or whatever? Of course. Who hasn't had that experience? I think that this movement has gone so far that, you know, people just— you can't be offended by everything. You know? I'm probably gonna upset some people by this, but you can't be offended by everything. What— what next? It's like, words offend people. Well, you can't call somebody, you can't use this phrase to describe somebody, So we have to change it to this other phrase. And then a year later, that phrase offends somebody, and you got to change it to something else. And a year later it's something different. When does it end? You know, we're supposed to be this country where people have the right to free speech, and you can talk about ...

FABRIZI: Open society.

MANZARI: all kinds of things without, you know, being shamed. I mean, that's what I see a lot now, is that if you don't agree with the particular group of people, they're going to shame you, and shut you up. And I see this happening. I see articles about it happening in schools. I see, you know, I hear stories about it where kids are afraid to give their opinions.

FABRIZI: Even on college campuses when speakers are told— or not invited.

MANZARI: and don't glom on to— of course. Oh yeah. Or there are riots when somebody comes to speak that they don't agree with. Good lord. I mean, that's anti-American. I'm sorry. But people should be able to come somewhere, and speak, and give their opinion, and you don't agree with them, fine, you can debate it. But let's not get violent and let's not shame them into being quiet. And, look, don't get me wrong. It's absolutely wrong for, for, for people to be abused or, um, uh, you know, um, for people to use their power or position, you know, for nefarious reasons. Of course. I mean, who would say otherwise?

FABRIZI: Right.

MANZARI: You know? But, but it's this whole, like, political, politicization of — not saying the word right — politicization of these issues that's wrong. And it takes it to a different level.

FABRIZI: Yep. Well—

MANZARI: And I also, I just want to say one more thing. I fear for the boys. Like, I fear for, you know, my husband, my son, my, you know, my brothers. If you were just accused of something, and all of a sudden everybody says, "Well, if you're accused of it, it must be true." What happened to due process? What happened to facts?

FABRIZI: You're right.

MANZARI: So I have a big issue with that.

FABRIZI: OK. Listeners, we're gonna take a break. We'll be right back right after this.

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ANNOUNCER: We now return to Opinions Matter, a look deep inside the local issues affecting Mercer County. Once again, here's your host Joe Fabrizi!

FABRIZI: Welcome back. We'll be here until 2:00 p.m. We are very fortunate to have a Councilwoman Manzari from West Windsor live in the studio today. We did have a caller on the line, Sanjev. Are you still with us? I guess he's not. Anyway, if you're listening, you can call back. We're sorry, we had to take a break, and sorry we didn't pick it up sooner. At any rate before we went to break — and if anyone else would like to call, 215-949-3232. Before we went to break, we were talking about women in politics, and I'm about ready to ask the Councilwoman her thoughts about former governor Christie Whitman, who today would be considered a very moderate Republican I would believe.

MANZARI: Yeah, you know, I don't really know a lot about Christie Whitman, because she was a little bit before my time. I've lived here about 20 years in West Windsor. And before that, as I mentioned, I was in Pennsylvania. I didn't really follow politics. But I know we had talked a little bit before about, is the United States ready for a female president? And I'd say absolutely. I mean, women can do anything they want to do, and being President is certainly you know on that list of things that— somebody wants to do that, they can do it. I was a big fan of Condoleezza Rice.

FABRIZI: Right.

SANJEV: Hi, yes, I'm here.

FABRIZI: OK. Your question or comment?

SANJEV: Ah yes, I do have a comment. You're interviewing a wonderful Councilwoman, Virginia, actually. I know her very well. Hey, Virginia, how are you?

MANZARI: Hey, Sanjev, how are you?

SANJEV: Good. And, you know, Virginia is actually the voice of reason in our town. As you know, our town is very predominantly Democrat, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but I mean it is, I would say, far left in a way. And, actually, even my parents are Democrats, but I'm a Republican. And I see Virginia as one of the centrists, you know, moderate voices of reason within the town. She's very good, excellent lady, she knows much about policy. Very intelligent. And, yeah, you have a great person you're interviewing right there.

MANZARI: Thank you, Sanjev, that's very sweet of you.

SANJEV: Yeah. You're welcome.

MANZARI: Sanjev is a frequent visitor to our Council meetings.

FABRIZI: OK.

MANZARI: He's very involved.

FABRIZI: And I'm sure he's a contributor as well, right?

MANZARI: Well [laughter] contributor of great ideas, absolutely.

SANJEV: Yeah, yeah.

FABRIZI: OK.

SANJEV: And Joe, I actually need to inform you, there are some people watching. I think someone posted up this link. The reason I found it out is because one of the far-left people I mentioned posted it up on Facebook, and he actually invited people to troll this number or whatever. But, you know, I decided I would have Virginia's back by calling in, and just putting in the truth out there, about how good she is, and how wonderful she is, and how [indistinct] she is.

FABRIZI: OK, well thanks for the call. Thanks again.

SANJEV: Yep.

FABRIZI: All right. So, you were talking a little bit about Condoleezza Rice, and do you think the U.S. is actually ready for a female President. I guess you would say she is?

MANZARI: I do, yeah, I mean look. When I when I look at different jobs, and that includes political jobs, I don't think about whether the person's male or female. I think about whether or not they're good for that position. So, how— where do they stand on the issues? Are they a person that follows through? Or, are they a flip-flopper? Or do they think independently? think outside of the box, and they try to come up with solutions? Or do they just rubber-stamp what other people say? And I think those things are far more important whether somebody's male or female. I would much rather have somebody who is qualified and experienced and truthful than voting for them based on whether they're male, female, black, white, brown, what religion they are. Those things don't determine how you behave, and that's really what's most important, is how how you behave in the job, and what you can get accomplished, and how you're going to go after those issues. I mean, we were talking before about— a lot of people can complain about issues, and point out problems, but you really need people who come up with solutions and then can follow through on those. So, that to me is much more important than any of those other, sort of, superficial things.

FABRIZI: Very good logic, and I'm sure that that's what's taking place, according to your caller. At least, he says you're applying that logic on Council.

MANZARI: OK.

FABRIZI: And, you hear so little from West Windsor. It must be functioning so smoothly.

MANZARI: We try.

FABRIZI: You guys never make the news. I mean, a lot of the towns, like, well the bigger towns, Hamilton and Trent of course are always in the news, and not always in a positive way either.

MANZARI: Right. Well, I mean, we are a nonpartisan form of government in West Windsor, so—

FABRIZI: So let's elaborate on that a little bit. So, nonpartisan. When is the election held? How many Council seats do we have? And we have a mayor/council form of government, even though it's nonpartisan, am I correct?

MANZARI: Yes.

FABRIZI: Correct me if I'm wrong.

MANZARI: So we have one mayor and we have five Council members.

FABRIZI: OK.

MANZARI: We do not run as a Republican or a Democrat. We run based on a slogan, or an issue-based campaign. And— what was the other question that you had asked me?

FABRIZI: When is the election held?

MANZARI: The election is November, this November 5th I believe, Tuesday. And we have three Council seats up. So there are— I am not up for re-election. I have two more years. And the mayor is not up for re-election. So there's just three, the three council seats. So, but that makes up a majority of Council, three of five.

FABRIZI: And can I ask you, do they run at large? Or they run from a district?

MANZARI: So basically, people run, you can run independently, or you can run as teams. So there are two teams of people running. So they're not from specific districts.

FABRIZI: OK.

MANZARI: They just represent West Windsor.

FABRIZI: OK.

MANZARI: And there are two teams. And, again, they're not Republican- or Democrat-labeled. Although, oftentimes, I'll just tell you, that a lot of times the Democrats will label themselves as Democrats in their materials, because there are more Democrats, as Sanjev had said, in West Windsor, and they want to use that to their advantage.

FABRIZI: It's about money management, and it's about public safety.

MANZARI: Yeah.

FABRIZI: And it's about who can oversee the job to get it done right, basically.

MANZARI: Yeah.

FABRIZI: But then again, when you move on to higher office — and all politics is local — and money comes from, you know, we need a lot of money. We were talking a little bit about higher office at some point, and you said, "No." You're a naysayer. You said, "Nope," that you're definitely ruling that out.

MANZARI: Yeah, I mean I've been approached before to run for higher office, and I'm just not interested in doing it. And I don't consider myself a politician. Politics is a really dirty, nasty business, and I don't have a great opinion of a "politician." I consider myself a volunteer, and I'm working for the Township and for the residents. And in my opinion, all local politics should be nonpartisan. And the problem comes when people start to bring in national issues that are divisive, partisan issues into local government. All you're doing is is upsetting one group or another, and you're dividing people, and that's what's wrong with politics these days. I mean that, that's—

FABRIZI: It's a hard thing not to do that though in some instances, because most politicians, unlike yourself, they start out, let's say, on the School Board, and then they run for Council, and then either Freeholder, or Assembly, you know and then on from there.

MANZARI: Right.

FABRIZI: So, it's important for people to know a little bit about your inner thoughts about other political issues, maybe not affecting the town. And that's why probably people such as myself would ask you questions ...

MANZARI: Right.

FABRIZI: ... to try to determine where you are in the political landscape.

MANZARI: Right.

FABRIZI: And I know you're a Republican, but what type? How far? This and that and all that. So, that's probably why, but, you had mentioned, we talked a little bit about money and politics and so forth, and it's a dirty game, and this and that and the other, but you realize under the Faulkner Act — and that's what all the towns operate under —

MANZARI: Yeah.

FABRIZI: and your town chose your form of government. There also are other alternatives, and where they can have districts. Like we could have four Council people running, let's say you know, in a district, and one at large, along with the mayor running at large. Which, in essence, would take a lot of money out of the campaigns. And in a larger town it would allow better representation from the districts, and— because you can get a concentration of elected officials living in one area.

MANZARI: Right.

FABRIZI: See? And, then suddenly the neighborhoods are not represented really well.

MANZARI: Right.

FABRIZI: So, those are things that people should look at, and I think the law provides that the Charter study, the Charter should be looked at every now and then. Like in Hamilton, I don't think we've had a charter study since 1976, when Mayor Rafferty changed from a committee form of government, when they changed it when Mayor Rafferty went over to the strong mayor/council form of government ...

MANZARI: Right.

FABRIZI: ... that we now have today. So those are some of the things that people out there in the towns, and in our listening area in New Jersey, should like understand, and maybe take a look at that, and approach their elected officials, because that's campaign finance reform in its simplest form.

MANZARI: Mmm hmm.

FABRIZI: Doesn't require any law. I mean, it doesn't— no restrictions on the money. Right? And, basically it takes it out of the hands to the back room.

MANZARI: Hmmmm.

FABRIZI: The smoke-filled back room.

MANZARI: Right. Well, you know, in our campaign we didn't take any money from any special interest groups at all. We were strongly opposed to overdevelopment, and did not want to— and refused to, and we stood by this, would not rezone anything to allow housing. There's just too much rampant overdevelopment already, and so we wouldn't take money from anybody who could benefit from overdevelopment. And we didn't take money from other, from any political groups. We didn't run as Republicans. We didn't take money from Republicans, and you know, we just didn't want to be beholden to anybody who would say, "Oh, you know, I gave you some money there, you know." And that's just sort of the way we decided to approach it, and the way we've been living since then. And it's all just about following up on your principles.

FABRIZI: All right. Stay with us. We'll be right back right after this.

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ANNOUNCER: We now return to Opinions Matter, a look deep inside the local issues affecting Mercer County. Once again, here's your host Joe Fabrizi!

FABRIZI: Welcome back. We'll be here until 2:00 p.m. Once again, we have a Councilwoman Manzari from West Windsor Township in Mercer County live in the studio. I you'd like to join, in you can do so by calling 215-949-3232 with a question or a comment. And, Councilwoman, I want to ask you, your toughest moment on Council thus far? What was your— the toughest thing that you encountered?

MANZARI: Gosh. Well, I have to tell you, when I first started on Council, I was excited because I thought I could do a lot with the budget. I have a lot of experience running large budgets: three hundred, about a hundred million dollars, 35 million,65 million dollars, big budgets. And our budget is about forty million dollars. So I thought, "Alright, I got this." And I had a lot of ideas. And every day my husband would come home from work, and he'd see me poring over this gigantic binder, with all the financials, and he said, "Are you secretly going to interview to be the CFO of the Township or something?" And I said, "No, no, I just really want to do this right." And I took Municipal Budgeting class,

FABRIZI: Wow.

MANZARI: ... because it is different than corporate budgeting. And I had a list of ideas, and questions, and suggestions and... I think there were about a hundred townships represented at this class, and I probably asked more questions than everybody else combined. And I kept, "Oh, what about this? What if we do this? And what if we structure it this way?" And the answer to every single question was, "No, you can't do that. It's against the law. The state won't allow it." So, I was really— I have to tell you — that hit me hard. Like, I was really depressed for a good long while after that, because I realized that so many things, our hands are tied on a municipal level, because the state won't allow certain things. And these aren't, like Ponzi schemes. I'm talking about just common sense.

FABRIZI: Right. Well, municipal government and County government is a product of state government.

MANZARI: Yeah.

FABRIZI: And it only takes 63 people in this state to create law.

MANZARI: Wow. OK, well, you know ...

FABRIZI: I know, I mean, sometimes you say, "Well you've been—" how long have you been on that anyway, by the way?

MANZARI: It'll be two years at the end of the year.

FABRIZI: So, in two years, you know, what can you look back on and say, "Well, you know..."

MANZARI: Right. So, that, having that realization about the budget it was really a hard thing to swallow, but I realized very quickly that the biggest impact that we can have in West Windsor is shifting some of that tax burden from the residents to commercial properties, right? Too businesses in town, to the ratables. And West Windsor really has had a bad rap for business friendly.

FABRIZI: For housing?

MANZARI: No, well that's another story, but people were looking at West Windsor and they'd say, "Oh my gosh. I don't want to open my business in West Windsor. They're so difficult to deal with." And so one of the things that we've been trying to do — and the Mayor's been really making some headway on this — is making some changes in West Windsor to make it easier to open up a business, and helping those businesses to thrive. And one of the things that— he actually came up with this idea for "West Windsor Gives Back," which is just an organization of people, volunteers in town. And each year we would pick a nonprofit organization in town to basically promote them, and raise money for them, and get the awareness out about them. Last year we we did it with the police. It was our police force's 50th anniversary in West Windsor. And so we had celebrations throughout the year. And we would go to all of the events. Some of them were already events that we're going to take place anyway, like Community Day or National Night Out. And then there were others, where we came up with additional events. So we did a dive into summer event at the pool. And it was all oriented toward getting the community out, getting people out, meeting each other, raising awareness for that group of people. So last year, we celebrated their anniversary, and then raising money. And, so what they did was the the PBA bought drones. And the intent of the drones is, to use them as tools for our police force, and use the latest technology, to— in situations like trying to find lost children, trying to find lost seniors. Investigating situations that could be dangerous, where you don't want to put a human beings life on the line, so you send the drone in first. So, that's what we did last year. This year, we're helping to raise funds for the Princeton Junction volunteer Fire Company. You know, fire companies, these days, they have it tough. Like, I mean, we were a farming town, and the fire department was the center of the town, right?

FABRIZI: Just like Hamilton years ago.

MANZARI: Yeah. And they had all the events. And whenever there was something going on in the town, the fire company was sponsoring it and they were involved, and...

FABRIZI: One thing— I want to I want to interrupt you for a moment.

MANZARI: OK.

FABRIZI: You mentioned fire districts, fire protection.

MANZARI: Mmm hmm.

FABRIZI: OK. We're about— we're talking about a merger in Hamilton.

MANZARI: Right.

FABRIZI: And one of the reasons they're talking about, you know, a paid fire department, merged, you know, municipal fire department, is because the lack of volunteers.

MANZARI: Right.

FABRIZI: And yet, in a West Windsor, you guys function predom— primarily with volunteers. Am I correct, or am I wrong?

MANZARI: Absolutely. Yep.

FABRIZI: How does that happen?

MANZARI: We have two fire companies, and they're all volunteer. Two fire companies, and they're all volunteer. And I've got to tell you, the donations and the volunteers, the number of people who volunteer, has been declining over the years, because it used to be huge.

FABRIZI: Right.

MANZARI: And now it's harder to get people. But that's also part of what West Windsor Gives Back is trying to do this year, is to get the word out to people that, you know, they do need volunteers, that— The township provides for big capital expenditures, like trucks. Right? Fire trucks. But the fire company itself is run all in donations, and by volunteers. And you don't have to just be a guy who runs into a burning building. They need administrative people. They need people to help set up events throughout the year, that will generate awareness about the fire company. So there's a lot of different ways you can volunteer.

FABRIZI: So the local government's fostering that. Right? They're fost—

MANZARI: So, this is a just a separate group of people, just a group of volunteers. We, or they, decided on the name West Windsor Gives Back.

FABRIZI: OK.

MANZARI: It's all volunteer. It's not a nonprofit.

FABRIZI: OK.

MANZARI: It's just a group of individuals who raises awareness about a different group each year, and this year it's the Princeton Junction Volunteer Fire Company. And we're encouraging people to donate to them. We've had a couple of events. We have this summer event, and now we have a big Mayor's Ball coming up on November 2nd.

FABRIZI: OK.

MANZARI: And we're getting sponsors from local businesses, and we're trying to raise money for them to purchase some safety equipment. It's basically, they're called hydro fusion struts, which is sort of a fancy name for a vehicle stabilization kit.

FABRIZI: OK.

MANZARI: OK, so if there's a couple cars, or even a single car, in an accident — sometimes they'll flip, or they'll get mangled or what have you — the first responders go out there, and they have to stabilize those vehicles before they can get in and pull people out. And it keeps our first responders safer, and it increases the chance of survival for the people who are trapped in the cars. And so that's what we're raising money for this year. So, if anybody out there who's listening wants to get involved with West Windsor Gives Back, or donate to the Fire Company. or find out about volunteering for the Fire Company, please email WWGivesBack@gmai.com and we will direct you to the appropriate people.

FABRIZI: OK.

MANZARI: So, we're not a nonprofit ourselves. We don't have, we don't take any money. We don't have a bank account, or anything like that. But we just help the the other great organizations in town. And you had mentioned before about other towns. I've seen some other towns transitioning to paid organizations and stuff, and I really think that's too bad. I mean, I don't think that's going to work out for those towns, when they're transitioning to paid groups. I work a lot with the fire, both fire companies, and the police. I'm the [coughs], excuse me, the liaison to the Emergency Management Group. And so I meet with these guys on a regular basis. I worked with the police closely last year, working the with the fire company this year. My son volunteers at one of the fire companies as well, as, like, a junior volunteer. And these guys are a team. And it is so cool to see these guys out together. And they go out and— So, we're responsible for Mercer County Park, and we have the lake, and so our guys have to go out and do water rescues. And the police were out there with the drones, helping the the firefighters, basically sending the drone out first to look for people, and hey, you know, if it's like a 75- or 80-degree day, it's sunny out, it's maybe, it's not a big of a deal. But if it's cold and icy ...

FABRIZI: Oh yeah.

MANZARI: ... you could be saving a first responder's life ...

FABRIZI: That's true.

MANZARI: ... using that drone. And the firefighters had, oh my gosh, so much, so many great things to say about that. So, it's really cool to see these guys working together.

MANZARI: Yeah.

FABRIZI: Yeah. You are, you are Republican. Are you a Republican Committee person?

MANZARI: Um, so I, um, go to the committee meetings. I automatically get a vote as a, as a Council person.

FABRIZI: I see. And, so, the Republican Party in Mercer County ...

MANZARI: Yep.

FABRIZI: It's, really, I mean who's running for County Executive against Brian Hughes, on the Republican side?

MANZARI: I don't know, you know, he—

FABRIZI: You know what? You said that. You don't know, and that's—

MANZARI: I really don't know.

FABRIZI: Isn't that a shame, that here we are, in a race for the County Executive, you're an elected official ...

MANZARI: Yep.

FABRIZI: Here I am on the radio. I don't know who that person is, and you don't either.

MANZARI: Yep.

FABRIZI: What's going on?

MANZARI: I don't know. It's a bit of a mess, and we, West Windsor tries to stay out of that ...

FABRIZI: Well you guys are nonpartisan. You try to stay out of it.

MANZARI: Kind of. Yeah.

FABRIZI: But the fact of the matter is, I mean, you're a part of Mercer County.

MANZARI: Uh, yep, we are. We are indeed.

FABRIZI: So, and, as you know, I believe there's only two, like Washington Town and Robbinsville, I stand corrected.

MANZARI: Yup.

FABRIZI: I want to say Washington Township, but the name's been changed. Robbinsville and West Windsor really, are the last— they're nonpartisan, but, they're, you know, little "R" Repub— little "R's" basically.

MANZARI: Right.

FABRIZI: And the rest of the— if Hamilton goes Democrat, the whole County is Democrat.

MANZARI: Yep.

FABRIZI: Yep. So ...

MANZARI: And you know, I mean, I really—

FABRIZI: Is that healthy?

MANZARI: No. I don't think it is at all. I mean, I think it's a shame that— First of all, I think it's a shame that people just vote party line. You really should vote the individual, and what that individual stands for, and what the issues are. And, when you're on the local level, and even the county level, I just think, you got to put a little bit more thought into it.

FABRIZI: Isn't competition the American way of life?

MANZARI: Yeah, absolutely.

FABRIZI: Then why don't we have that...

MANZARI: A hundred percent.

FABRIZI: Why don't we have that in government and politics?

MANZARI: I don't know. I know one of those Founding Fathers wasn't really thrilled about the two-party system, so, maybe he had a point.

FABRIZI: Maybe. I don't know. So, I mean why is it, there are no Republican challengers. Do you know why?

MANZARI: No, I don't. I haven't really— I've been involved in any of those discussions.

FABRIZI: OK. Do you think the Hamilton Mayoral race will determine in which direction the—

MANZARI: OK. So, first of all, whenever you're talking about illegals, that pretty much does it in the name there: they're already breaking the law. So, I don't know why we are proposing sanctuary for people who are breaking the law. Are you— is the next thing gonna be, well, rapists are going to, you know, have a free and easy pass? They— they're breaking the law. What about gang members? Or, you know, people who rob banks? I mean, you're breaking the law. Yes, there's a— what about drunk driving? I mean, if you're breaking the law, you shouldn't be given special passes. You shouldn't be given a driver's license—you're not a citizen. You shouldn't be allowed the right to vote—you're not a citizen. You shouldn't be protected from, you know, from the police—you're not a citizen, and you're breaking the law. And, you know, I, we last year there was a resolution that was circulated around. It did— nothing ever came of it. But it was basically to make West Windsor a sanctuary city. And all— the entire wording of it was basically undercutting the police.

FABRIZI: Yeah.

MANZARI: The police have to be able to do their jobs. I mean, when you look around, and you see what happened in Texas just recently, with that guy being shot in the back of the head. I mean, people aren't respecting the police anymore. They're not respecting the rule of law anymore. We have to protect these guys and have their backs, because that's who has our back. I mean, what do you do when you have a problem? You call 911. That's who's coming to help you, is the police. So, shouldn't you be on their side? I mean, West Windsor has amazing police officers. They have been doing community policing for years. They are major members of the community, and we now support those guys.

FABRIZI: We need to take a break. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

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ANNOUNCER: We now return to Opinions Matter, a look deep inside the local issues affecting Mercer County. Once again, here's your host, Joe Fabrizi!

FABRIZI: Welcome back. We'll be here until 2:00pm. I have Councilwoman Manzari from West Windsor Township in Mercer County here in the studio. We're talking about Mercer County, the condition of the county. We're talking about the sanctuary situation in New Jersey, all the towns that are sanctuary towns. We're a sanctuary state. And talking about drivers' license for illegals, and the fact that if you live in New Jersey, you gotta have — what — six points, or something, of information to get your license. And here, they want to give an illegal a license. And, how do you do that? How do you even start? I don't even know how ... Somebody sits in front of you. You're at a keyboard. So, OK, "How old are you?" Well, what do you do, take their word?

MANZARI: Yeah.

FABRIZI: What kind of documenta— you have to start somewhere. How do you do that?

MANZARI: Yeah.

FABRIZI: I mean, just hand it to them.

MANZARI: Yeah.

FABRIZI: And you know, I don't see that that's being right. But anyway, I do want to mention that, to everybody that's out there that's interested, that I did offer, and I extended an invitation to both Mayoral candidates from Hamilton to join in a debate here, right in the studio, and they have about four dates as an option. And it will be on a Monday. And an hour and a half. There'd be eight questions, and there'll be an opening statement, six minutes, and a closing statement, six minutes. And they were given the topics. Of course, they have— they weren't given the questions, just the topics. So they can do their homework. And I hope that they accept the offer. So, just for anyone who's interested, is out there today listening, you want to spread the word to others as well. But anyway, back to West Windsor. And if you, Councilwoman, if you had to make a choice on either eliminating county government or municipal government, which one would it be?

MANZARI: Oh, county government, no question.

FABRIZI: County government.

MANZARI: Yep.

FABRIZI: OK.

MANZARI: The County just keeps taking more and more money. And, frankly, I don't know what they're doing with it. And I know they give it back to you in dribs and drabs, but as— West Windsor never gets back their, you know, their share ...

FABRIZI: Their due? Their fair share?

CLARK: Hey, you were talking about the illegals. How do you feel about the census coming up? Not being able to ask a question, whether you're a citizen or not? And, have any of you ever gotten that community, what do they call ...

MANZARI: The Community Survey.

CLARK: Yes.

MANZARI: Where they basically threaten your life and your livelihood, and your—

CLARK: Yeah, they'll come out and get you

MANZARI: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's horrible.

CLARK: That is so invasive,

MANZARI: Yup.

CLARK: The questions that are asked there, compared to what seems relatively innocuous on the on the census.

MANZARI: Yeah.

CLARK: It's the upside down -ness of the lifetimes that we live in.

MANZARI: I a hundred percent agree with you. When I first saw that survey, I thought it was a joke.

CLARK: Yes.

MANZARI: And I Googled it, and I thought, "Oh my God, this is actually a real thing, and they really are threatening these people if they don't give up this information in it." So, again it's anti-American. I can't believe it's happening.

CLARK: But nobody brings that survey up.

MANZARI: Right.

CLARK: But they bring up this, you know,

MANZARI: The Census.

CLARK: the Census, which is just going to be a money grab

MANZARI: Yep.

CLARK: to fund illegals in your area, to get federal dollars.

MANZARI: Right. I mean, the Census is supposed to be counting citizens of the United States. I don't understand why their definition is, you know, you were there at that date and time. Like, why don't they do it based on your residence? Why do they do it based on where you are at a specific date and time? I could be on vacation, or you could be—

CLARK: Well, I don't know whether, technically, you're right on that.

MANZARI: Well, that's what the census lady told us when she came to the Council, unless I'm remembering it incorrectly.

CLARK: Well, I think it— that's where the technicality comes into play here. I think it's just to take a count of the number of people that are here, but it doesn't parse

MANZARI: Right.

CLARK: whether you can put down whether you're citizens or not. This is the protectiveness of the illegals

MANZARI: Right.

CLARK: that they don't— they say they won't answer the Census.

MANZARI: Right.

CLARK: which also becomes a funding method by Washington that will redistribute federal dollars, which always comes down to a spending issue about everything.

MANZARI: Mmm hmm.

FABRIZI: So Clark goes back to my point: all politics is local then, right? It starts there, and it comes, you know, that's where it starts, and it—

CLARK: Yeah, but it's not, it doesn't come the local. It has to have an intermediary in between before it may seep down to the local area. I mean, how many times do you go to the state for local money? So it's controlled in the intermediate levels. Does it go from the state, to a county, to the local government?

FABRIZI: Sometimes in New Jersey, sometimes it goes directly to the municipality. Sometimes it goes to the county, and for the county to dole out, it depends.

CLARK: Yeah, but there's always the middleman in between. It's all about the Benjamins, is what it comes down to.

FABRIZI: Mmm hmm.

CLARK: If anybody gets that Community Survey thing, and if you read those questions that are on there, Oh my God, is what it comes down to. And as you said, if you Google it, you hear that if you don't respond to it, you're going to get a visit.

FABRIZI: Mmm hmm.

MANZARI: Yep.

CLARK: And you're threatened, basically, to respond to that, because I know I sat on it for a while, but then I Googled it like you did. This goes back about four or five years ago

MANZARI: Mmm hmm.

CLARK: because it's done in the in between the ten-year census. It's just atrocious, you know, the way things are handled, that's why people get so fed up with it.

MANZARI: I agree. Yeah, I mean it goes to overreach of government, which I am completely against. And you're right about the— having the question about illegals on, if you're illegal or not. I don't understand why that's not on there. That should be the first question asked.

CLARK: It's not a case of putting down if you're an illegal, but—

MANZARI: Whether you're a citizen or not.

CLARK: Yes.

MANZARI: Yeah.

CLARK: Yeah, I mean that's the point there. But, you know, the one side will say, "Well, they're not gonna respond to it." Well, wait a minute. If I'm threatened on that Community Survey, why shouldn't they be threatened?

MANZARI: Right.

CLARK: I mean, it doesn't make any sense. So, OK.

FABRIZI: So, good points, Clark. Thanks for the call.

MANZARI: Yeah.

FABRIZI: And you say ...

MANZARI: Well those Freeholders are going to be knocking on my door later today [laughs]

FABRIZI: I don't know, I think they've dealt with this before. I've had them on here, some of them, and I've thrown it out there, and they've heard it before. But you know, Connecticut, done away with it, like in 1960.

MANZARI: OK.

FABRIZI: And the last time I checked, Connecticut's still part of the United States. It didn't float away. It's not out in the middle of the ocean.

MANZARI: Yeah.

FABRIZI: Functioning well. And it's probably one of the, you know, New Jersey's a wealthy state, that's for sure. I believe, what, we're probably second or third? I'm not sure.

MANZARI: Oh.

FABRIZI: Somewhere around there. But Connecticut, I know, does— the people up there do very well in Connecticut, you know?

MANZARI: Yes, they do.

FABRIZI: So, home rule, they chose home rule over regionalization. But home rule is expensive too, isn't it? You had a lot of towns to deal with.

MANZARI: Yeah. Well, you know, I think you really need that connection with the residents. I mean, like I said before, I consider myself a volunteer. And I've been involved, and sort of, been listening, and paying attention—

FABRIZI: Can I stop you for a moment?

MANZARI: Yeah.

FABRIZI: I agree. We need that connection.

MANZARI: Yeah.

FABRIZI: But do you think we need— is it necessary to have East Windsor and West Windsor? After all, at one time, at one point I believe it was "Windsor."

MANZARI: Right. And isn't there a little place still called "Windsor?" There is.

FABRIZI: Yeah, yeah.

MANZARI: There's East Windsor, West Windsor, and then, Windsor.

FABRIZI: And then there's this other little donut hole called Hightstown.

MANZARI: And there's— yes, that's true. Yep. A donut hole.

FABRIZI: Do we need, do we need all those? You know, and I'm not suggesting that tomorrow, you know, everything start going together. But at some point, shouldn't the Legislature, you know, the Senate and the Assembly, start, like, encouraging more so than they are now?

MANZARI: I don't know. I hadn't really given that any thought. That's an interesting question.

FABRIZI: But that's where all the money— I mean, look at all the duplication, triplication in government.

MANZARI: Yeah.

FABRIZI: Look at all these fiefdoms that we have to— look at all the patronage that goes with every one of these little towns.

MANZARI: Yeah. I still think getting rid of the middleman is a better idea than getting rid of the towns though. I mean, you have a duplication of efforts, and we basically are paying money into them, and then they're giving it back to us. What's the point of that? So, that's pretty much how I look at that.

FABRIZI: All right, interesting. So, know what are your thoughts about the School Board consolidations? What about that? What do you have?

MANZARI: Well, our school district is rather large already. We've got 10,000 students, and that's going to go up, because we have a lot of development, you know, obviously, going on in West Windsor, with the affordable housing mandate. So I could not see us joining up with another district. I mean, I just think that would be

FABRIZI: Mmm hmm.

MANZARI: would be the wrong choice. So, I don't know about, maybe there are some other townships that have— that are much smaller, and maybe it makes sense for them.

FABRIZI: Yeah, we have more, we have many more school districts than we do towns.

MANZARI: Mmm hmm.

FABRIZI: So that you realize that. And, again, each situation is different.

MANZARI: Yeah.

FABRIZI: So, you know that's definitely ... what about the way we build schools?

MANZARI: What do you mean?

FABRIZI: Well, for instance like if you go to McDonald's, or you go to Dunkin Donuts, or whatever. Everyone, you can be in South Carolina and you look, and you go, "Oh, there's a Dunkin Donuts." You don't even have to, you just know by the color, you just know. OK. Because they use the same template over and again when they built.

MANZARI: Oh, I see.

FABRIZI: The same set of plans.

MANZARI: OK.

FABRIZI: Alright. Use a prototype. Alright? And yet when we build schools, everyone is a Taj Mahal.

MANZARI: Hmmmm.

FABRIZI: OK.

MANZARI: Right.

FABRIZI: And it has a lot to do with you know engineering and everything else. Anyway, we're getting to the top of the hour, and

MANZARI: Oh my gosh

FABRIZI: You have something real quick to say?

MANZARI: Oh, no, just thank you for having me on. I've really enjoyed myself. That flew by.

FABRIZI: It flies by. It really does. And listeners, remember, until the next time, your opinion does matter.

ANNOUNCER: 1490 WBCB, Levittown-Fairless Hills, Trenton.